TRANSCRIPT – ABC AFTERNOON BRIEFING WITH PATRICIA KARVELAS

Angie Bell MP
Shadow Minister for Early Childhood Education
Shadow Minister for Youth
Federal Member for Moncrieff

TRANSCRIPT

ABC Afternoon Briefing with Patricia Karvelas

13 March 2025

Subjects: Labor’s renewables only fantasy, Soaring electricity costs, Tariffs. 

E&OE…………………………………………………………………………………………………

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

I want to bring in my political panel for this afternoon. Early Childhood Education Minister Anne Aly and her shadow counterpart, Angie Bell. Welcome to both of you.

ANNE ALY:

Thank you

ANGIE BELL:

Thank you, Patricia.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

Let’s start on this issue around energy prices. And to you, Minister, households across most of Australia’s eastern seaboard will face increases in electricity bills. It’s pretty rough, isn’t it? I mean, the government’s been talking about dealing with cost of living, but these households are going to, set to have electricity prices rise again.

ANNE ALY:

Well, you’re right, Patricia. You know, we’re very cognisant about the pressures on Australian families right now, and particularly with the rising energy costs. I’ll make the point, though, that the independent Australian Energy Regulator has clearly determined that the ageing and unreliable coal fired power stations are a huge contributor to increasing energy costs. And all the experts agree that our pathway to renewables, shored up by gas and shored up by hydro, pumped hydro, is the way to go in the long term for achieving cheaper and more reliable energy prices.

Now, I do just want to say this to your viewers. We know that about 80 per cent of Australian households are paying more for energy than they could be, and that they could be saving up to 25 per cent in their energy prices. So I’d encourage all your viewers to go onto the website. Energy made easier. That’s energy made easy, sorry, energy made easy. And have a look at the comparative prices and see if they can save money by switching their provider.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

Yeah, there are some consumer hacks and it’s a good point. But Angie Bell, the broader issue, the point that Anne Aly makes, is actually accurate. Ageing coal fired power is part of the issue here and under the Coalition policy, we’d actually have coal fired power stay in the system for longer. It will take nuclear so long to get up and running, if it were to indeed happen. Won’t it just keep energy prices higher for longer?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, the point here, Patricia, is that Australians are paying more under Labor for their electricity. And if you think back to three years ago, when the Prime Minister promised a cut of $275 and it has not materialised, and now Australians have this catastrophic news under this government that their energy bills have increased by $1,300 and they’re going to see an almost 10 per cent increase on top of that for their electricity prices is shocking news today for Australians. Businesses cannot afford it. We’ve seen 27,000 businesses go broke under this government because of their increase in electricity prices, among other things, but prices are going up and up and up, and it’s permanent price rises that we’re seeing according to the Reserve Bank Governor. So, this government has failed when it comes to delivering their promises. And if we have another three years under this government, who knows what the prices are going to be at the end of those three years. What we need is reliable energy and we need cheaper energy, and we need a mix of energy. So we need coal generation, we need gas generation, and in the long term, we need a strategic plan to get Australians’ power bills down and nuclear as part of the mix just makes sense.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

Yeah, but the delay is the issue. Today, we had Peter Dutton calling for Chris Bowen to be sacked. I just want to get your response to that if I can, Anne Aly. Given we have seen price rises under the government, which is not to be disputed, what’s your view on this call. Should the Minister be sacked for having kind of big price rises under his watch?

ANNE ALY:

Well, I think Australians have grown accustomed to Peter Dutton’s huff and bluster. But where are their policies, and what is their policy, other than a $600 billion nuclear fantasy that Australian taxpayers, their grandchildren and their great grandchildren will be saddled with the debt fall for years and years to come, and that we know will not provide the energy that we need, cheaper energy that we need, or reliable energy that we need. All the experts, and we listen to the experts, the Labor Government has listened to the experts, and all the experts say that our plan for renewals, for renewables shored up by gas and shored up by hydropower is the way to a long term, affordable, reliable energy system for Australia. Now, Angie has just talked about the cost of energy. I’ll remind Angie that she and Peter Dutton voted time and time again against our energy bill relief for Australian households, along with a range of other cost of living measures. So, it’s a bit rich to talk about our government when they were in power for almost ten years and failed to land a single energy policy, which is why we find ourselves where we are now.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

Angie, I want to put that to you, because there’s going to no doubt be another round of energy relief. We know the government’s looking at it, and I suspect it will be in the budget. Do you think it’s time to back it?

ANGIE BELL:

These are band aid solutions, PK. What we need to do is get inflation down between the band so it stays there permanently between two and three per cent – it’s still above that, and Australians are paying more under this government. What we need is a getting back to basics economic agenda for our country. We need to rein in spending, and we need to make Australians’ energy more affordable and more reliable. Now, Labor’s policy of putting all its eggs in one renewable basket is not the answer to Australia’s energy prices for consumers. The answer is a mix of technologies. And we want to also look not just now, but into the future, for our long term energy security. We are the only G20 nation who does not have nuclear as part of the mix, and we believe that this is a secure, it is a strategic place that we should go as a nation towards having nuclear energy as part of the mix, along with renewables, and using gas in the interim to make sure that we have a future where Australians can afford to pay the bills….{interrupted}

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

Let’s just…

ANGIE BELL:

At the moment, they’ve got a Prime Minister who has broken his promise. Their electricity bills are out of control. I’ve got a local business here on the Gold Coast whose electricity bill has gone from $25,000 a month to $50,000 a month. This is simply not acceptable, and we can’t afford another three years under this government.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

Ok, I want to change the topic to Donald Trump’s tariffs. And I want to start with you, Angie Bell if we can, and then Anne Aly, I’d like to press you on this issue too. But first to you, Angie Bell, just who’s at fault, here? Is it Donald Trump or Anthony Albanese?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, it seems the Prime Minister couldn’t actually get a phone call with President Trump. He tried, and they refused the phone call. The Prime Minister is the only Quad leader across the world who has not got on a plane and gone to Washington to speak to the leader of the free world about tariffs…{interrupted}

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

But none of the Quad leaders got any exemptions…{interrupted}

ANGIE BELL:

… Australia. I think it’s my turn here. And also, what we’ve seen is the Trade Minister actually puff his chest out and say he’s proud that he didn’t go across to America to negotiate these trade tariffs. What is this government doing? What have they actually achieved for Australians? Now we’re talking about jobs in aluminium and in steel, and a Prime Minister who can’t get through to the leader of the United States and a Trade Minister who won’t travel over there to negotiate, and where’s the Ambassador, by the way?

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

I get all that critique, but I’m saying, do you blame Donald Trump for the tariffs, or the government, our government, that’s against tariffs?

ANGIE BELL:

The government has not negotiated with the President of the United States, and so the government needs to go over to the United States and make a meeting with the President of the United States and actually talk about this. I mean, he won’t take a call from the Prime Minister of Australia. That is a disgrace.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

Okay, Anne Aly, the Prime Minister has not been able to get a phone call, and clearly you heard Angie Bell there, and the Coalition’s been arguing this. That’s a failure of your government. That’s what they say.

ANNE ALY:

Yeah, it’s interesting to hear Angie just repeat the lines of the of the Coalition there. Look, the fact is that we’re working on this, not just at the Prime Ministerial level, but at all levels.

Australians are rightfully angry and disappointed at the decision of Donald, of Donald Trump here, and you’ve made the point Patricia, and many others have made the point, that Australia wasn’t singled out in this. And you were right that Quad leaders did go and visit, and it made no difference either. I think we need to take a really level-headed approach here. Cool heads will prevail, and we cannot do anything that is going to put at risk a larger trade war. So, we need to exhaust all the negotiating skills and all the negotiating opportunities that we have. Bearing in mind, of course, that the steel and aluminium trade to the US is a small percentage, but the implications of course, are on further trade tariffs. And so we need to approach this in a cool, calm and level headed way. And I think the Albanese Labor Government has proven to Australia that we are capable of mending our international relations, whether it’s in the Pacific, whether it’s in Europe, and whether indeed it’s with China, in the best interests of our country.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

One sentence, answer from both of you. Yesterday, Ed Husic told me this was a dog act from the US. Angie Bell, is it a dog act?

ANGIE BELL:

This is not good news for our nation and our government needs to clean up the mess.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

Okay, using your own language, fair enough. How about you, Anne Aly, is it a dog act?

ANNE ALY:

I think Ed was expressing what most Australians are feeling about this.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

Okay, I’ll leave it there, thank you to both of you.

ANNE ALY:

Thank you.

ANGIE BELL:

Thanks, PK.

ENDS.