TRANSCRIPT – 4BC Mornings with Ben Davis

Angie Bell MP

Shadow Minister for the Environment

Shadow Minister for Youth

Federal Member for Moncrieff

TRANSCRIPT

4BC Mornings with Ben Davis

24 November 2025

Subjects: The Coalition’s sensible way forward to achieve environment reform; Liberal Party values and unifying behind Sussan Ley.

E&OE…………………………………………………………………………………………………

BEN DAVIS:

Now, before you glaze over, it affects every single one of us because it has a real impact on development and houses being built and the approvals for those houses, homes, high-rises, whatever it may be. It helps relieve the supply issue. It cuts the red tape, the green tape, if you like. It reduces duplication. It increases certainty for those who want to build and develop. There’s a new threshold test for approval. There’s the process for reconsidering decisions that have been made clearer. This is all on the table. There’s also the scope for a new Environmental Protection Agency.

So, negotiating with the Greens, negotiating with the Coalition. How are those negotiations going? Where does the Coalition stand? Because heaven help us if the Greens get their way here. And what amendments the Coalition looking for to make sure this bill gets passed, part of their negotiations? Angie Bell is the Shadow Environment Minister. What reforms are the opposition hoping to push through? Angie, good morning.

ANGIE BELL:

Great to be with you, Ben, and your listeners this morning. There are a number of substantive issues that I’ve put forward to the Minister over seven or eight meetings that I’ve had with him. There are a number of concerns that the Coalition has around the role and structure and powers of the new Environmental Protection Authority, which will be obviously a federal body. There are concerns around pathways of approvals, that is, streamlined pathways. There are concerns around the definition of unacceptable impacts and net gain that are in the package of bills as well because they are quite broad, not specific and industry would like to see more specific definitions because we want to safeguard jobs, industry, investment and of course, we want to also protect the environment with these bills. So, we want a good outcome for all of those stakeholders if you like.

There’s problems around the duplication of greenhouse gas reporting, which of course the government’s talking about productivity increases, but they’re putting more red tape and green tape in at every measure. We’ve seen 5,000 new measures put in place by the government. So, we want to see that taken out. There is proposed penalties which are excessive and there are not sufficient guardrails around those penalties. There are other concerns as well Ben, secondary concerns we would call them that we have. But certainly environmental protection orders put a significant deal of power in an unaccountable EPA and the circumstances in which these can be issued as I said before, irresponsibly broad. We want to offer a constructive pathway forward to secure these environmental reforms. And the minister has said he wants it this week. He’ll have to do a deal with the coalition and, you know, make changes to those areas that I’ve outlined to you, or he’ll do a deal with the Greens and he says he’ll ram it through the Parliament in a rush to fail.

BEN DAVIS:

Okay. So just on that, I mean, it’s the either or. So, they’re the two choices. It’s doing a deal with the Greens or doing a deal with you guys in the Coalition. You’ve just outlined some of your issues. How flexible, how much negotiation and movement is there on behalf of the LNP?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, the Minister will have to move on all the issues that I’ve put forward to safeguard jobs and industry and improve productivity as well because we can’t be part of a bad set of bills which all the stakeholders agree.

BEN DAVIS:

So he needs to tick all the issues you just raised then. Five out of six. I think that it was six that I wrote down, five out of six won’t cut it?

ANGIE BELL:

We’ve got seven on our list.

BEN DAVIS:

Seven, sorry, I must have missed one.

ANGIE BELL:

That’s okay. There was probably one I didn’t go around there, which was the environmental protection orders and just having some dates on those stop-work orders to make sure there’s some certainty there for industry and jobs as well. But there is a third option, Ben. You talked about the two options there, one with the Coalition, a deal, and a deal with the Greens. The third option is that this goes into next year because the inquiry isn’t due to report back until the 26th of March. We’ve only had three days of inquiry and as I was saying all the stakeholders universally agree that the bills are unworkable the way they are so the government is the one that wants to push this through the Senate, rush it through without the proper scrutiny that it deserves. We’ve scrutinised these bills over the last few weeks that we’ve had them. Graeme Samuel himself said he didn’t have to scrutinise the whole bill because the package is 1,459 pages long. It’s a lot of reading. It’s about 40 hours of reading. And we want to make sure that we have a constructive pathway forward, but that those concerns are addressed.

BEN DAVIS:

Angie Bell, who is the Shadow Environment Minister, is my guest this morning. And we are talking about environmental laws that will, at the crux of it, what does it mean for you? Well, it’s about getting approval to make developments happen. That’s part of it, but that’s what relates mainly to you. And that comes down to housing. It comes down to moving things forward. But housing is the big one. I know there’s a lot the property sector, and a lot of developers waiting on this. Angie, getting it pushed into next year, I mean, I know you said that is the third option, but Murray, what I’ve heard him now double down, even triple down on that, saying this will happen this week.

ANGIE BELL:

Well, the Minister will have to do a deal with the Coalition, so he’ll have to move on some or all of those items that we’ve highlighted, and I’m yet to see the amendments. The ball is in his court, Ben, because we have put forward our case to him and now it is beholden upon him to fix his bills and give us the amendments that are required to deliver certainty.

BEN DAVIS:

If it doesn’t go the Coalition’s way, way, a deal with the Greens. What would that look like?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, that’s disastrous for Australians. It’s disastrous for jobs, for certainty, for investment. And this will eventuate in very bad laws that do not strike a balance, and they do not deliver a demonstrable gain for business right now as they are or a demonstrable gain for the environment as they are right now. So, if the government does a deal with the Greens, it will be disastrous for the country and that’s beholden on the government.

BEN DAVIS:

And the effect on the economy as well, because this is a balance between the environment and business. And again, the Minister, Senator Murray Watt, is saying he thinks what he has put forward has struck a good balance. I mean, if this doesn’t, or if we get this wrong, what does that do for the economy?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, environmental law reform is too important to get wrong. And if the government gets it wrong, that’s on them. What we have done is put forward constructive, substantive changes to the bills based on stakeholder feedback and on our own work that we have been doing on the bills. I’ve met with the Minister now seven or eight times. I think it’s eight, and we have discussed all of those measures and I have given him a secondary list of concerns as well and so it is up to him, if he wants a deal by the end of the week. It’s up to him to give the Coalition the amendments that we’ve asked for so that these bills can be passed and we can deliver certainty for industry, for productivity, for investment, for the economy and for the Australian environment that we love so much.

BEN DAVIS:

At the Queensland Media Club last week, he fired a shot across the bow saying, I’m actually worried about the LNP, the Coalition, and how they can actually focus on what needs to be focused on because too much are they focused on their leadership and what’s happening internally.

Don’t worry, he fired a shot at the Greens as well, just hoping that they could come down actually talk some sense. So, he wasn’t just giving it to the Coalition, but he’s making a point because today and over the weekend, I’ve been asking, what do you need to do? Sorry, what do the Liberals need to do to solve their identity crisis? I mean, Angie, what’s it mean to be a Liberal today?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, it’s very generous that the Minister says he’s worried about the LNP, can I say. I’ll start with that for your listeners who will have a good giggle around that. But look, what we need to do is work hard for the Australian people. We need to outline policies that are relevant to them and that impact the problems that they are undertaking right now or facing right now. And they are, obviously, the cost of living crisis, the cost of energy, the inability for young people to be able to afford their own home. And Sussan Ley has outlined some intent to make sure that we address through our policy suite the intergenerational inequities that exist for young Australians today, not being able to do what their parents did and their parents before them, which is own their own home.

Young people have given up hope under this government of owning their own home and we plan to bring that hope back to life and make sure that Australians have energy abundance so that they can afford to pay their bills. And also, Sussan Ley has outlined in two terrific economic speeches that she’ll deliver tax cuts for Australians as a promise at the next election as well. And so, we continue to work on policy to support the leader, get behind our leader of the opposition and make sure that we deliver what Australians expect us to deliver, which is a great alternative to this appalling government that is sending our country backwards.

BEN DAVIS:

Okay, and that’s probably that last line there, providing a good alternative government. I think that’s what all Australians crave, regardless of what side of the political divide they’re on. Because to have a strong government, you need a really viable alternative in an opposition to keep them accountable, to actually, perhaps be good leaders themselves. Right now, you’re not showing that. .

ANGIE BELL:

Look, I have to agree that the Coalition has to be a strong opposition in order to provide an option for the Australian people at the next election. We’ll continue to rally behind our energy policy. And make sure that we’re unified behind the leader to make sure that she has the clear air as well to speak directly to Australians on her plan for that alternative government towards the next election.

BEN DAVIS:

Okay, unify behind the leader then. So, changing the leader, would that be catastrophic for the LNP or for the Liberal Party?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, that’s not something that we’re talking about. I would like to stop the rhetoric around changing leader. That is not something that is planned and about. I would like to stop the rhetoric around changing leader. That is not something that is planned and that is certainly not something that is on the table anywhere today or this week, as we’ve seen. But we will continue to focus on what is important to Australians, and that is the cost of living crisis, the cost of electricity. I mean, housing is just going through the roof, and the government is not doing enough. It’s failing when it comes to housing policy. It’s failing on energy policy. It’s failing on economic policy. The government needs to stop spending because it’s costing young Australians $50,000 a minute on the government’s credit card and they’re going to have to pay that off.

BEN DAVIS:

Angie, one final one. Does the Liberal Party federally have an identity of crisis?

ANGIE BELL:

The Liberal Party’s values are timeless and that is smaller government, reward for effort. I mean, that is what we stand for, aspiration. That’s why I’m in the Liberal Party because I built something from nothing as a young person and they are timeless Liberal values that you work hard for something and you keep more of.

That’s why we’re about smaller government and tax cuts and keeping more of what you earn. They are timeless Liberal values and it’s up to us to make sure that we talk to young people about those values and how we can help them into investing into themselves, into their communities, into their families, into their first home. These are what’s most important for the next generation and that is what we’ll be working on.

BEN DAVIS:

Best answer I’ve heard so far. Keep up that fight, Angie. Appreciate you jumping on the program today. The Shadow Environment Minister, Angie Bell.

ANGIE BELL:

Thanks, Ben.

ENDS.