Interview with Patricia Karvelas, Afternoon Briefing

Topics: NDIS inquiry, One Nation preference deals, ABS data on Australia’s life satisfaction.

PATRICIA KARVELAS

I want to bring in my political panel for today. Angie Bell is the Shadow Minister for Youth, Sport and the Arts. Sally Sitou is the Labor MP for Reid. Welcome to both of you. The NDIS Inquiry has officially begun, but it’s only three days long. Angie Bell, first to you, I spoke to Monique Ryan a little earlier, and she suggested that three days is just not enough time to really scrutinise such big changes. What do you think?

ANGIE BELL

Thanks, PK. I think that definitely what’s been coming out of today’s Inquiry is very much that. And that is, there’s not enough time to go through it, there’s not enough time for it to be scrutinised properly, and there’s not enough consultation – as there so often is not with this government. So, we will see what comes out of this Inquiry. We will go over it with a fine tooth comb, and as we tried to make amendments to it in the House, we’ll see what happens when it comes out of this Inquiry, but it certainly can’t be passed the way it is, because, as usual, the government has not consulted properly, and it is rushing it through the House and the Senate.

PATRICIA KARVELAS

Sally, three days is really practically no time at all for such big changes. Why not let people scrutinise these huge changes that will have huge impacts on some of their lives.

SALLY SITOU

We want there to be some sunlight shone on the NDIS, and to be very clear, this is one part of a broader NDIS reform package, because reform to the NDIS is long overdue. PK, if you were to speak to any NDIS participant, family member, anyone who cares about the NDIS, they will say three things to you. One is that it is truly life-changing. It has transformed the lives of people with disability in a way that we have never seen in this country, and they value and treasure it. But unfortunately, the implementation has been very rocky, and it has been allowed to grow at very unsustainable rates, so under the Coalition it was hitting over 20% growth year on year, and that’s completely unsustainable if it’s going to overtake the cost of Medicare and the PBS combined, and the third point that people would make to you, and I think the Coalition, the Greens, anyone would make this point to you, is that fraud compliance and rorting has been allowed to go unchecked. So we are now putting in place reforms to make sure all three things are addressed, making sure that NDIS is here to stay for the long term, decades to come, making sure that we crack down on fraud and rorting, and making sure that there’s quality in the system as well, so that people with disabilities get quality care, and I think that’s what anyone would want.

PATRICIA KARVELAS

Okay, just quick right of reply there, if I can, from you, Angie Bell. I mean, the Coalition has said you do think that this needs to be pared back. Well, delay it if you, if you had a longer inquiry.

ANGIE BELL

Look, the facts are that under the Albanese Labor government, spending on the NDIS has blown out by 75% Sally. So, I think pointing the finger at the Coalition at this point in time is just simply not on. It’s a typical thing that this government does, is point the finger to the Coalition. They have been in government for four years, and under them the spending has blown out by 75%. Now, the NDIS should be for those people who absolutely need it, and that is the participants, because every country is absolutely judged on how it treats those who need the kind of support that the NDIS was set up to originally help with, but under this government, obviously rorts have been allowed to run wild, and it seems they haven’t done enough about it, and what are they trying to hide when they’ve only released 10% of the submissions from the Inquiry today? What are they hiding? They’re not being transparent, and they’re not consulting.

SALLY SITOU (interrupts)

If I can just share one really quick.

PATRICIA KARVELAS

If it’s down the neck, really quick.

SALLY SITOU

We have now been able to check more compliance and fraud and invoices in one day than the Coalition did in an entire year. So, if Angie wants to talk about fraud and compliance, I’m happy to make that point to her.

PATRICIA KARVELAS

Okay. Well, let’s move on to another topic. One Nation is likely to do a deal with the Liberals, according to Tony Abbott. I mean, he is also announcing a national listening tour to try and rebuild support for the party. I have to put that first to you, Angie Bell, a sort of national deal with One Nation on preferences, is that something you think is a good idea?

ANGIE BELL

Well, I think this is premature to be talking about any kind of coalition deal or preference deals when an election is 18 months to two years away, according to whenever the Prime Minister decides to fire the gun for the next election. What we need to be doing is working together as a credible opposition to offer the Australian people an alternative, and the way we do that is through sound policy, is through using the more than 80 years of corporate knowledge and governance that we have in the Liberal National parties as a Coalition, and rolling out our policies that will help the Australian people, because right now we are under the Labor Government, which is the biggest taxing, biggest spending government in Australia’s history, pushing up bills for everybody around the country, and I know you’re going to talk about satisfaction as well today, PK, that Australians are under the pump. They are so worried about not being able to pay their mortgage, with 15 interest rate increases, with energy bills up by 40 per cent under this government, with inflation heading up towards five per cent. Sure, it’s moderated for a second, but it’s still going up. It was going up before the war in the Middle East, so don’t blame the Middle East war for inflation going up Sally, because it was already going up in that trajectory, and it’s all under this Labor Government.

PATRICIA KARVELAS

Okay, just to clarify your position, you think it was wrong for Tony Abbot to be talking about preference swap so early?

ANGIE BELL

I think it’s premature for anybody to be talking about preference flows. I think what we should be talking about is our policies and talking about what we’re going to deliver for the Australian people as we lead into the election, because it’s all hypotheticals at the moment. If our primary vote increases and we’re able to get it up into the high 30s, early 40s, then we’ll be in a different position in 18 months’ time moving into an election. So, right now, I think that polls come and go, and we need to be focused on what we’re doing as a Coalition to make sure that we can get rid of this God-awful Labor Government.

PATRICIA KARVELAS

Well, Sally, you do preference swaps with the Greens as well. I mean, a lot of people find some of the Greens’ policies objectionable, others love them, to be clear. Depends what kind of voter you are, right? Like, and how you feel about politics, but you do it on the left side of politics, don’t you?

SALLY SITOU

Well, I guess that’s the point. PK, unfortunately, Angie, the horse has bolted. You have already done preference deals and have consistently done preference deals with One Nation, and you did so most recently in the Farrer by-election, that discussion has been had. If you want a party to stand up to One Nation and some of their divisive and grievance policy, the only party that will do that is the Labor Party. And I recognise that people are going through a really difficult period at the moment. We’ve experienced crisis after crisis, COVID lockdown, inflation. Now we’ve gone through a global fuel shortage. People are feeling concerned, and I can understand that they are looking for alternatives, because obviously the Coalition is not offering that at the moment. Okay, what we need to do as a government is offer hope, and I think that is what we’re doing with some of our long-term tax reform changes, but I think things like fee-free TAFE, where we’re giving people the skills that they need for a fulfilling and meaningful career in areas where we desperately need them to go to.

PATRICIA KARVELAS

Okay, just very briefly, and it is very briefly, this ABS data, which shows that actually people are more unhappy now than they were during the pandemic. What do you make of that, Sally?

SALLY SITOU

That’s kind of alarming, isn’t it? I think that, like I said, we’re experiencing crisis after crisis, that’s making people feel anxious. I absolutely understand that. So, we have to offer them hope, and we are doing that, but these aren’t short-term fixes that are going to mean that they’re going to be sold quickly. These are long-term structural reforms, tax reform, yes, building more homes, so that at first home buyers get a better shot, but, like I said, giving people meaningful and fulfilling career paths, and Patricia, I just want you to know about the extraordinary apprentices I have met who are so excited that they’ve been part of their free TAFE program. They’re going to go out into the industry, and they’re going to be part of big nation building projects with our decarbonisation program. They’re really excited and hopeful. I note the Liberal Party have nothing to offer.

PATRICIA KARVELAS

All right, well, there’s some people you bet that are hopeful, but you’re right, a lot of people are not hopeful. Final word to you, if I can Angie.

ANGIE BELL

The fact that people are less happy now than the pandemic, I mean, come on. This is the most difficult time, because people can’t afford to pay their bills, and I heard Monique Ryan talking about this before, where she spoke about everything, geopolitics and everything else – except the economy here. The local economy in Australia, the domestic economy, where Australians are struggling, struggling to pay their bills. PK, I mean, of course, people are under the pump, they’re stressed, their mental health is on edge, because families are having more and more pressure piled on them, because this government is the biggest taxing, biggest spending government in Australia’s history, and it ends badly.

PATRICIA KARVELAS

All right, we’re out of time. Thank you. You’ve been a good panel. Appreciate your time.

SALLY SITOU

Thanks, PK.

ANGIE BELL

Thanks, PK.