TRANSCRIPT – 2GB AFTERNOONS WITH MICHAEL MCLAREN

Angie Bell MP
Shadow Minister for Early Childhood Education
Shadow Minister for Youth
Federal Member for Moncrieff

TRANSCRIPT

2GB AFTERNOONS WITH MICHAEL MCLAREN

12 December 2024

Subjects: Labor’s desperate bid for votes with failed child care pledge

E&OE…………………………………………………………………………………………………

MICHAEL MCLAREN:

Look, I had my say on the new child care plan from the Albanese government yesterday. Not a fan, not a fan. But I’ll just outline it quickly again for you. The ALP, they’ve pledged to introduce a three-day guarantee for child care services. So, what that basically means is every family will be able to access early childhood education for three days each week before they start school. But there’s a catch, because, you know, if you can get a place and you pay for it, well you can get that now anyway. The difference is the government have decided they go to abolish the activity test.

Now the activity test was put in by the previous Coalition Government, and I think it was a sensible thing. It said, look, if you want to get a subsidy from the taxpayer, then you’ve got to at least be looking for work or in work, or volunteering or doing something with your time, to an essence, justify someone else subsidising you dropping your little child, darling off at a facility.

No, I don’t have a problem with that, but many in the child care space so it’s discriminatory and it’s affecting the most vulnerable. The government clearly have a number of people on their back bench that don’t like it. In fact, they don’t like the system we have in totality, what they want is universal child care. This is what they want. In other words, they want everybody, doesn’t matter how much you earn or how little you earn, whether you work or whether you don’t, to be able to send their child to a daycare or child care facility, early childhood education facility for almost no money, five days a week. That’s their vision.

Now I say it’s an hallucination because they can’t afford it. Well, I don’t think they can, but the business lobby, interestingly enough, thinks it’s a very good idea. Well, I wonder what the Opposition think. Looking at the opinion polls, they may be the government in a few months time, certainly judging by Peter Dutton’s reception here, they will be.

Angie Bell is the Shadow Minister for Early Childhood Education, she’s based on the Gold Coast I think normally. She’s with me now. Angie, good afternoon. Thanks for being here.

ANGIE BELL MP:

Good afternoon. Michael, you’re quite right with what you say about the activity test and some of the other points that you made. I think what I would say to your listeners is buyer beware, because this is more smoke and mirrors from a very desperate Prime Minister who’s trying to find votes in the lead up to the next federal election. He had almost three years and two reviews for him to rehash a Rudd-era Labor policy that wasn’t delivered last time.

MICHAEL MCLAREN:

There’s a few, there’s a few bits for this, isn’t there Angie? I suppose, for the listener specification, we’ll walk through them, because yesterday, there was a lot of money being thrown around $1.3 billion or thereabouts, over a couple of years. Now, the big part of that goes to a fund. They call it the Early Education Fund, and that’s to help build or expand 160 child care centres in what they call child care deserts, places where there are a lot of kids, but the private sector doesn’t feel as though they’re going to make a quid out of building a centre there, so they don’t do it.

So there’s a supply and demand mismatch. Well, that’s normal in this economy these days, across the board, of course, but a lot of these would be built on school grounds. And as you said, years ago, 2006 it was, Kim Beazley had this idea to end the double drop off. So, you drop all your kids off at the one site, rather than the child care centre, than getting in the car and taking the older kid to school and this sort of thing, put them all in one spot. The government will help build that.

Let’s look at that first. What’s the Opposition’s take on that policy? Because, I mean, out of all of what they announced yesterday, to me, that was the more sensible idea.

ANGIE BELL MP:

Well, of course, we need more places in the regions. There’s no doubt that families are screaming out for child care places. But last time, as you mentioned on Kim Beazley, and then Kevin Rudd that inherited it, they promised 260 centres. They spent $200 million and they ended up funding only 38.

The question here is, when the Prime Minister has spruiked a promise, can Australians, particularly in the region, trust that he will deliver? Because last time, it was a broken promise, like so many of the others that he has talked about since being elected, including $275 that he promised, everybody remember that?

MICHAEL MCLAREN:

No one has forgotten that one Angie, no one has forgotten that. Now, the other aspect of this plan is where I’m not happy, and that is this idea that you get rid of the activity test. Now, I know there are people that are quote, unquote experts in this space, whether that’s self-ascribed or indeed earned, and they say, no, look, you know, we look at the numbers, there’s 70 odd thousand kids out there that could be going to child care, but aren’t because they’re disadvantaged or whatnot. As a taxpayer, I don’t want to sound like Scrooge, but you know, as a taxpayer, why should I be subsidising the daycare for someone’s children if that someone doesn’t want to either go and look for a job work or has nothing else to do? Why should I have to subsidise that?

ANGIE BELL MP:

Well, Michael the activity test is really a very important measure that ensures that those taxpayer dollars that you’re paying and everybody else is paying that works, go where they’re needed most. And so if you’re accessing the child care subsidy, you must be working, looking for work, studying or volunteering, at a minimum, to make sure that the money goes where it’s needed the most.

Now, what this will do in a perverse way is push up the demand on the sector, which means that those families who currently have a place in child care and are working will be competing against those families who are coming into the system that the Prime Minister was talking about yesterday. And so you’ll find that it will divide Australians. There will be some competition in terms of who will get those places. Some families won’t be able to get their places, therefore they won’t be able to go to work, etc, etc. So, this is not good policy.

MICHAEL MCLAREN:

This is being sold as a productivity enhancer. But if indeed, the scenario you just outlined there Angie comes to fruition in a number of circumstances, this would be productivity killing, wouldn’t it? Because you’re going to have people that would want to use the system because they need it, because they’re working, and they need to therefore drop their children off at a daycare centre, missing out on spots because people who aren’t working want to get access to it because they want it ,they don’t need it, and getting the spot that the previous couple need but now can’t get. I mean, that’d be a loss to the economy, wouldn’t it?

ANGIE BELL MP:

Well, that’s exactly right. At a time when Australians are struggling and wondering whether our productivity can go backwards any more, this is a measure that would perhaps see that happen.

One other thing I would like to also just to point out is the Prime Minister keeps saying that his government delivered cheaper child care, but the ABS statistics show Michael that over the last 12 months, there’s been a 10.7 per cent increase in out of pocket costs.

MICHAEL MCLAREN:

Despite massive subsidy increases. I mean, let’s not forget the context here. I think Judith Sloan was writing this morning, $14.5 billion will be paid in child care subsidies this year. Families with combined incomes of up to $530,000 per year are eligible for some child care but now look, I mean, that’s another point. So, here’s the Prime Minister who spent his early years fighting Tories or whatever he used to go on about. He’s not bad at middle class welfare, for a bloke who likes getting stuck into the blue. I mean, now you’re the Liberals, what’s your take on subsidising, even if it’s a small amount, a family that brings home $530,000 a year. Why do they need any government assistance to send their child to daycare?

ANGIE BELL MP:

Look, I think co-payments have done very well when it comes to education, health, those sorts of things, served Australia extremely well. Under the Coalition that cut off point that you were talking about for child care subsidy was $365,000 and so it was the Albanese Labor government who pushed it up to $539,000 and spent $4.7 billion on their so called cheaper child care Bill, which has delivered exactly 10.7% increase in out of pocket costs.

MICHAEL MCLAREN:

So, my suspicion Angie is this, we seem to be turning early childhood education into just a facsimile copy of the rest of education, where it’s almost all taxpayers subsidised if you go through the state system and you know, there’s a curriculum and there’s all this sort of stuff. My suspicion is, within so many years, if they get their way with universality, they’re also going to get rid of the voluntary aspect of going, they’ll make it compulsory. That’s my suspicion. That it’ll be compulsory to send your two-year-old to daycare because they need the education, the argument will be, and the government’s building the facilities, and they’re funding it, and so you better use it. I mean, do you, do you suspect there’s a few people out there pushing for that?

ANGIE BELL MP:

The Productivity Commission outlined that this policy will not increase the amount of women, or a very small amount of women going back into the workforce. And I think the government has forgotten the two key performance indicators of government in the child care space is work women’s workforce participation and quality. And these policies don’t address quality, they don’t address affordability, and they don’t afford access.

And so, you know, the Prime Minister’s missed the point on this policy entirely. They’ve rehashed an old Labor policy from bygone years where parents won’t remember it. They’re hoping because, of course, not many, perhaps grandparents will remember it, but certainly not parents who are in the child care sector right now. So, buyer beware, is what I would say. And we’ve got a desperate Prime Minister heading into the next election.

MICHAEL MCLAREN:

I gather from everything you’ve just said there Angie, the Coalition will not vote in favour of scrapping the activity test?

ANGIE BELL MP:

We won’t support this because we want responsible management of taxpayer dollars, and that’s what the activity test outlines, and also income testing.

MICHAEL MCLAREN:

Good. That’s what I think sensible people wanted to hear. Thanks, Angie. Have a great Christmas. Appreciate your time.

ANGIE BELL MP:

You too. Bye.

MICHAEL MCLAREN:

All the best, Angie Bell, the Shadow Minister for Early Childhood Education.

[ENDS]