TRANSCRIPT – ABC AFTERNOON BRIEFING

Angie Bell MP
Shadow Minister for Early Childhood Education
Shadow Minister for Youth
Federal Member for Moncrieff

TRANSCRIPT

ABC AFTERNOON BRIEFING

5 November 2024

Subjects: Student debt, RBA decision, Melbourne Cup

E&OE…………………………………………………………………………………………………

GREG JENNETT:

Time now to introduce our political panel. Joining us right here in the studio today, Labor front bencher and Eden Monaro MP, Kristy McBain. Welcome back, Kristy, and on the Liberal side, Liberal front bencher and Member for Moncrieff, Angie Bell. Good to see you too, Angie.

Why don’t we start out on student debts, wiping them by 20 per cent. I’ll go to you. Kristy, first of all, it’s still not clear, and Adam Bandt has raised it here, not clear to me. Why are you flagging this now but not delivering until beyond the next election? You pretty obviously would have the numbers to lock this away now, why not?

KRISTY MCBAIN MP:

We have introduced a $3 billion debt reduction already into the House, and we’re working through that process, and we’ve been really clear about setting out our priorities for the next term of a Labor Government. And this is first cab off the rank. We did that when we were in opposition, outlined a range of costed policies. And put it to the Australian people, we think as we move into the next phase, headed towards an election, it’s important to set our priorities for second term Labor Government.

GREG JENNETT:

All right, I know Angie, your side has deep disagreement over what’s being foreshadowed here, but I wonder, in principle, leave aside the methods and the numbers, whether you agree with student debt relief?

ANGIE BELL MP:

Well, Kristy made a good point that they’ve already introduced a bill to forgive $3 billion of student debt, and this is a further $16 billion off budget, which is equivalent to about $1,600 per Australian household. It’s a huge amount of money, and we feel that it has deep inequality about it. It’s not fair. It’s simply not fair that 23 million Australians should pay for three million Australians, or 24 million Australians should pay for the other three million for their student debt, loans. No, we think it sort of reeks a bit of Steven Miles in Queensland with his free lunches.

GREG JENNETT:

All right, we’ll respond to that. The fairness point then, Kristy, you will have a situation where, when you’re wiping 20 per cent off across the board, people of high income potential are doing much better out of this than someone with a degree that may not lead them into a high paying job.

KRISTY MCBAIN MP:

Look, I think that that characterization just goes against what governments are for. The Opposition was against tax cuts for everyone because they were for everyone. They only wanted them for a small section who earned really high incomes. Now they’re against reducing student debt because it’s only some people and not everyone. It’s similar to negative gearing or franking credits. Not every Australian is able to access those tax breaks, but every Australian contributes to it through our taxes. There are a range of taxation policies where not every Australian benefits directly, but we do as a society. So it’s this weird argument to say we’re not in favour of tax cuts for all, because they’re for everyone, and we want them just for the high end, and then to say, well, actually, we’re not in favour of student debt, because it’s not for everyone. It’s only for a small amount of people…

GREG JENNETT:

Well, it’s for three million people.

KRISTY MCBAIN MP:

…But we also don’t want to touch negative gearing or capital gains. We don’t want to touch NDIS because, you know, that’s a policy and a budget item that only helps some people in our society and not everyone, but we all pay for it. It’s a weird argument when there is a lot of government policy that particularly helps one cohort, but we all contribute as a society, because that’s what good societies do, to make them work.

GREG JENNETT:

All right, well, what’s wrong with making decisions, you know, sure, maybe for a minority on one particular initiative, but across time, everyone gets a bit out of it.

ANGIE BELL MP:

Perhaps it’s just a coincidence that that particular voter base is in the Albanese Government’s sights? We think it’s deeply unfair for some Australians to pay for other Australians when it comes to the debt they have racked up. What about those people who’ve gone through university and paid their debt? What about those people who just paid their last debt amount last week or next week or the week before the election? How is that fair to those cohorts? It’s simply not, and we don’t agree with it.

GREG JENNETT:

Regional unis. You’d be familiar with them both as an MP and Minister Kristy. Typically, their fees aren’t as high, right? So the benefit for students at regional universities is relatively less, isn’t it?

KRISTY MCBAIN MP:

The average benefit is about $5,500 and that’s a huge amount of money for anyone. I think the most important thing here is we’ve got a lot of young Australians who are really keen to get into the property market, and HECS is counted against them when they go for a loan. What we’re trying to do is make the system fairer. We’ve already introduced legislation to wipe $3 billion off debt and also make sure that the indexation doesn’t go up faster than wages. That’s incredibly important to a number of students. It’s also important to a number of parents I’ve spoken to who are concerned that HECS counts against their kids when it comes to the property market. And I agree with Angie, there are people who have paid off their HECS debt, you know, who will be thinking, Oh, but I’ve just paid mine off.

GREG JENNETT:

I know a couple.

KRISTY MCBAIN MP:

Yeah, I’ve paid off mine. There will be similar cohorts who, you know, had University for free, and then a year after they enrol, fees come in. These things happen. I think what we’re doing is talking to the Australian people. They’re telling us what their priorities are, and we’re delivering on what they’re asking us to deliver on. Cost of living relief goes a long way to helping people get into the property market and HECS debts, helping them with that is something that we can do, we’re doing right now, and we will do in a second term Labor Government.

GREG JENNETT:

All right, let’s see what I’m not sure she was asked today, but let’s see what Michelle Bullock, the Governor of the Reserve Bank, might have to say about this. She was asked, though Angie Bell, about cumulative government spending, you touched on offerings from the now defunct Miles Government in your home state. What is the message that you think the Reserve Bank Governor is trying to send in these statements today?

ANGIE BELL MP:

Well, I think the message is that underlying inflation is too high and that the Reserve Bank doesn’t appear to have confidence that these cost of living measures in terms of electricity, rebates are enough to keep the downward trajectory on that underlying inflation rate, and they want to see a longer period of time, and therefore interest rates remain on hold because the Reserve Bank doesn’t want to see that inflationary number pop up again after those rebates come off.

I think that comes back to too much spending into the economy by the government, which means interest rates remain higher for longer, and families under this government have endured 12 interest rate increases, which totals around about an extra $30,000 a year in mortgage repayments. Families don’t have that kind of money tucked behind the couch.

GREG JENNETT:

So, if the government were to choose, and they’ll have to make this choice, I guess next year, to extend energy bill relief, it’s demonstrably working, isn’t it, according to the headline inflation figures. You’d back that?

ANGIE BELL MP:

I would say that the government is spending too much money into the economy. They believe, with their economic “management”, that they should interject with the economy and spend money like it’s going out of fashion. We believe that we should pull back on spending, so the Reserve Bank can bring down interest rates quicker and sooner, so that families across the country have lower mortgage repayments.

GREG JENNETT:

All right, so this decision that we’ll learn for the government Kristy on a rollover or an extension of energy bill relief, seems a bit of a no brainer, doesn’t it? As you look at the difference between headline and underlying inflation, it’s achieving its ends. Why not extend it?

KRISTY MCBAIN MP:

Yeah, look, obviously those decisions will be made in due course, and the Treasury is obviously looking at a range of measures. I think what’s really interesting is, you know, when we came to government two years ago, inflation was at 6.6 per cent we’ve got it down to 2.8 per cent which is the lowest it’s been in over three years. When we came into government, there’d been a cash splash during COVID, some to companies that didn’t need it. Some to, you know, on dodgy property deals and a whole range of sports rorts. And we saw a budget before 2022 election, which basically was a massive cash splash. So there is, there needs to be an understanding by the Opposition that there was an absolute contribution by their government to the situation we have inherited. We are also doing a range of cost of living measures, including cheaper medicines, cheaper child care, fee free TAFE, a tax cut for everyone, and energy rebate relief. All of those measures have been opposed, so the Opposition say they would like us to do less, but at the same time, they’re willing on this, you know, ongoing pain for the Australian people while we’re trying to contribute to cost of living relief.

GREG JENNETT:

Can you ensure us that the floodgates won’t be opened in a big pre-election splurge?

KRISTY MCBAIN MP:

I think we’ve seen over the last two years, is really responsible economic management. We turned a $77 billion deficit into a $22 billion surplus. We had two surpluses in a row. We have reduced government debt by $180 billion and what that means is that taxpayers are paying $80 billion less in interest on government debt because of our responsible economic management.

ANGIE BELL MP:

I would say taxpayers are paying more tax, they’re paying more on their mortgage, they’re paying more for food, they’re paying more for electricity, if not for the rebates. Electricity is up by 30 per cent and I would like to just respond to one claim that you just made, which the government continues to make over and over again, and that is cheaper child care for Australians. The government spent $4.7 billion on extra child care subsidy and out of pocket, costs are up by 12.1 per cent in the last 12 months. So, this policy has failed.

KRISTY MCBAIN MP:

That’s not the response that I received from my own electorate, where people have told me costs are down on average.

ANGIE BELL MP:

It’s in the ABS data.

KRISTY MCBAIN MP:

I’m just telling local constituents are telling me. Constituents are saying, finally, we’re getting some child care rebates.

ANGIE BELL MP:

Look at the data.

KRISTY MCBAIN MP:

Absolutely there are plenty of data out there, plenty of data. I go to my local child care centres, and I live in regional Australia, and on average, our costs are down by 11 per cent. There are people right across regional Australia with extra money in their pockets every week because of tougher…interrupted

ANGIE BELL MP:

You’ve done a survey of over 1.3 million families that are telling you out of pocket costs are down by 11 per cent when the ABS is saying they’re up by 12.1 per cent?

KRISTY MCBAIN MP:

I don’t have 1.3 million families in Eden Monaro, but what I’m telling you is, on the ground, that’s the response I get.

GREG JENNETT:

All right. Dueling data, I’m sure we’ll see much more in the child care space, at least that’s my sense of it before we get to the election. Look talking about the hip pocket, a final one from each of you. Did you get a bet on any success today at the Melbourne Cup? And does it still have the appeal it used to have?

KRISTY MCBAIN MP:

I think people probably celebrated it in a range of different ways. I’m sure my parents were down at a local club having lunch and watching the cup. And after years of running a small business, it would have been nice for them to actually see it real time. I was in the, you know, a workplace sweep. I didn’t get a win, but a big, a big congratulations. We had four female jockeys in the Melbourne Cup today, and Jamie came third. Shout out to Jamie K and that’s on the back of a first place on Saturday at Flemington.

GREG JENNETT:

You’re right across this one. Angie, any success for you?

ANGIE BELL MP:

My lucky number is number 11. That came in first, but I was scrolling through the horse’s names looking for one called ‘Reckless Spend’, after the Prime Minister- I couldn’t find one.

GREG JENNETT:

Thank you. All right, we’re going to wrap it up there. Angie Bell, Kristy McBain. Thanks to both. We’ll get you back.

[ENDS]