TRANSCRIPT – ABC Radio National Breakfast with Sally Sara

Angie Bell MP

Shadow Minister for the Environment

Shadow Minister for Youth

Federal Member for Moncrieff

TRANSCRIPT

ABC Radio National Breakfast with Sally Sara

27 October 2025

Subjects: Murray Watt’s ‘nature positive 2.0’ environmental reforms; Energy policy; Net zero.

E&OE…………………………………………………………………………………………………

SALLY SARA:

Well, as you’ve heard, the opposition has written to the government asking Labor to split a bill to overhaul environmental laws, but Environment Minister Murray Watt has rejected the proposal, saying there doesn’t need to be a choice between productivity and the environment. Angie Bell is the Shadow Minister for the Environment, and she joined me a short time ago. Welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.

ANGIE BELL:

Good morning to you and your listeners, Sally.

SALLY SARA:

Why have you asked the Government to split this bill?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, we want to see some movement on this bill. We don’t want to stand in the way of environmental reform. And so, we’ve suggested to the Government overnight how to improve their bill. So, we want to see the Bill split so we can streamline approvals, and we can improve environmental protections separately. And what we’ve seen from the Government is a flat refusal immediately. And that’s what we kind of expected because it seems that it’s their way or the highway.

SALLY SARA:

You’ve said that you’ve only seen 50 to 70 per cent of the draft legislation and industry is concerned by a lack of detail. Why not wait until the Bill is introduced to Parliament?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, this was a way that we could get moving on this reform, which is what, of course, the Minister has said that he wants as well. But you’re right, we have only seen 50 per cent to 70 per cent of the detail, of the draft legislation, and so, we’ll await the rest of it to see exactly how that fits in with the EPBC reforms. This is a huge bill, Sally, and your listeners may not understand exactly how enormous it is. But there are lots and lots of moving parts in this and recommendations from the Graeme Samuel review outlined that there could be a balance between reform, when it comes to protecting the environment and when it comes to certainty around jobs and industry, which is so important for the wealth of our nation.

SALLY SARA:

Graeme Samuel, who authored the review into environmental laws, says he’s bitterly disappointed that the Opposition Leader is pushing back on Labor’s reworked reforms. Are you concerned that you may have got it wrong here?

ANGIE BELL:

I think Graeme Samuel’s review was a very large undertaking to have a look at the reform that is necessary to move forward. Now, the Minister has put in some of Graeme Samuel’s recommendations and others that he hasn’t. For example, the premise of Graeme Samuel’s review was that there’d be a Commissioner for the environment. And instead, what’s happened, is the Minister has put out there an EPA, an Environmental Protection Agency, which was a promise by the Prime Minister at the election before the last one.

There are some things that are straight out of the Samuel review playbook and there are elements in there of uncertainty around definitions of net gain, definitions of other areas in the legislation and also very, very high penalties that were higher than Tanya Plibersek’s nature positive laws.

SALLY SARA:

So which aspects of the bill fall into the half that you think you’d be able to agree to and pass quickly?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, look, I think some of the things around regional planning certainly have merit. But we’ll work through all of the detail when it lands because we really only have some of the Bill and the Minister has said he will introduce it this week into the Parliament so we’ll have to quickly work through the rest of the detail, see how that fits into the EPBC Act as it is, and then, move forward from there. Look, I’ll continue speaking with the government on this, consulting them on what their views are see if there’s a way through with amendments. But at this point in time, this bill is not workable.

SALLY SARA:

You’re listening to Radio National Breakfast. My guest is the Shadow Minister for Environment, Angie Bell. The suggestion to split the Bill also indicates there are parts of it that you can’t support. Can you outline those to me, please?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, I think the suggestion to split the Bill is a positive offer from the Opposition to the government on a way forward. Now, we’ve had a flat refusal. So, to talk about how we would split the Bill or what would be in each of the Bills is a bit of a moot point because now we won’t be able to proceed with any work to talk to the government about that, because they’ve rejected it.

SALLY SARA:

If split the Bill, do you risk Labor not wanting to work with you on the business aspect of the reforms while giving Labor the opportunity to seek support from the Greens?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, I think there’s a lot of complexity in this Bill at the moment, and to split the bill would make it very clear for the outcomes. And the two outcomes that we want to see are faster approvals, streamlining those approvals, and environmental protections to make sure that we stop the degradation of our environment. And I think, we think, that could be achieved, but unfortunately the government has rejected that.

SALLY SARA:

Senator Matt Canavan is presenting his review of net zero policies to the Nationals party room today. you see any scenario where the Nationals could support an environment policy that commits to net zero emissions by 2050?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, that is under the Safeguard Mechanism in terms of the committing of net zero by 2050. Look, the National Party is undertaking their own review process, as is the Liberal Party, and will continue to work through those processes. Because what Sussan Ley has said is she wants to see affordable and reliable energy for Australians to meet the need of Australians. And that’s so very important, because at the moment, power bills are going through the roof, Sally. We know that and families are really struggling. But we also need to play our role in emissions reduction. And so that is why the Coalition is reviewing our energy policy. We’re looking at all the inputs. We’ve been looking at gas. We’ve been looking at nuclear. And, in due course, we will settle on our policy when it comes to energy. And the National Party’s doing the same thing.

SALLY SARA:

Will the Coalition walk away from the Paris commitment?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, that is a decision that will come as we go through this policy, as we land on what our energy policy will be. But Sussan Ley has said that we need to play our part when it comes to reducing emissions.

SALLY SARA:

But if there’s a walk away from net zero, how can you remain committed to the Paris Agreement?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, you’re putting conjecture forward, Sally. You’re saying if. What I’m saying is that we have two clear goals when it comes to our energy policy, and Dan Tehan is heading that up. We’ll have more meetings this week in Canberra. In fact, we’ll have two meetings, one quite long meeting on Friday, including the backbench who will be able to have their say on what they think about our energy policy and have a good, robust debate, which is one of our great celebrations in the Liberal and National Party is that our members can come forward with their ideas. We can have this robust debate, unlike the Labor Party, who all have to fall in line behind Anthony Albanese.

SALLY SARA:

Are there any scheduled briefings from the Minister, Murray Watt, for you in the next few days?

ANGIE BELL:

Absolutely. I’ll continue to speak with Murray Watt on the different ideas that the Opposition has in terms of improving this bill and if we work towards some kind of amendment that would be a good thing because we do want to see environmental law reform. We want to see our environment protected and we want to see business and industry have certainty for jobs and faster approvals.

SALLY SARA:

Angie Bell, Shadow Minister for the Environment. Thank you for your time on Breakfast this morning.

ANGIE BELL:

Thanks so much, Sally.

ENDS.