Transcript – Money News with Deb Knight

Angie Bell MP

Shadow Minister for the Environment

Shadow Minister for Youth

Federal Member for Moncrieff

TRANSCRIPT

2GB/3AW/4BC/6PR Money News with Deb Knight

3 June 2025

Subjects: Labor’s super tax, Minimum wage, SDA campaign, AI

E&OE…………………………………………………………………………………………………

DEB KNIGHT:

There’s a lot of focus at the moment on the government’s plan to up the tax on the small number of super rich Australians with super accounts over $3 million. The legislation has already been before parliament, but a change in the makeup of the Senate after the election means that Anthony Albanese is likely to get an easier time getting this super tax change through with the help of the Greens. And with that in mind, some families are already taking steps to change their tax makeup. The Tax Office is watching though, and says it will be taking a close look at any restructuring of assets, updating its guidance on private wealth to include the potential superannuation tax. The ATO says it’s looking into how some of the wealthiest families with at least $50 million in the bank are rearranging their affairs, and whether or not it’s being done in a legitimate way. Of course, those on the minimum wage are unlikely be part of this category, but it is expected to grow, and it is the youngest workers of today that are likely to be hit with the hardest in the future, if the changes aren’t indexed to inflation. No surprise then that the legislation has drawn the attention of the new Shadow Minister for Youth, Angie Bell, who joins me now. Angie, welcome to Money News.

ANGIE BELL:

Thanks so much for having me Deb.

DEB KNIGHT:

We’ll get into the minimum wage changes and the super tax in a moment. But just reflecting on the election, the Coalition, clearly, and the Liberal Party, for that matter, got it wrong. Are the next three years about winning back the trust of the Australian voters?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, I think it’s about listening, Deb, to the message that Australians sent us, and that includes younger Australians. I’ve already started to have round tables with many young Australians on the Gold Coast, where I’m based, and this week I have the Gold Coast Youth Impact Summit on Friday, where we will be talking with a lot of young people from the Gold Coast as well. But over the last three years, I’ve been the Shadow Minister for Youth, and I’m so pleased to be able to elevate that now into cabinet. And I think that sends a very strong signal to young Australians across the country that Sussan Ley has decided to elevate youth into cabinet through myself. So I’m keen to be a strong voice for the concerns of young people in the shadow cabinet, and I look forward to doing just that.

DEB KNIGHT:

You didn’t capture many young voters in the result, and, well, not many voters at all across the board. But I guess this fight on superannuation is part of what you’re saying you want to champion. Many are saying that there’s no change, the Coalition’s just backing the big end of town yet again. Why are you so against these changes to super?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, because Deb, it’s about unrealised gains. So this is not real money gains, this is paper money gains. And there are some people who will have to sell assets in order to pay for that tax. But most importantly, through the eyes of the Shadow Minister for Youth, is the fact that Labor has designed this new tax grab as unindexed. Treasury itself has said that a 20 year old today, on an average wage Deb, will have a super balance of $3 million by the time they are 60. And I think that should ring alarm bells for all young Australians today, that they will be caught under this because it’s not indexed.

DEB KNIGHT:

So would that be a key change that you would be willing to accept if they did index these changes? Would that be something that the Coalition would then support?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, I think that’s putting the cart before the horse, Deb, because…

DEB KNIGHT:

But why? I mean, you’ve been criticised for being the no-alition, as the Prime Minister has been calling you. If you’re calling for change, and they were willing to accept that change, would that be something that you would approve, this legislation?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, look, Labor hasn’t signaled that they have a desire to do that. And so if that comes to the table, then the Coalition, of course, will look at that. And the Shadow Treasurer, Ted O’Brien, will have a look at that proposal. But that’s not before us at the moment, Deb.

DEB KNIGHT:

Are there any changes that you would be willing to call for? Indexation would be key, what about any other changes to the super tax? What are the key issues that you want to be overturned here?

ANGIE BELL:

I think it’s really important that Australians understand that this has been designed this way by the Labor government. And Treasury have said that some 2 million young Australians will be caught up in this by the time they are 60, and so this is a tax grab from Labor, because when Labor run out of money, they come after yours. And it’s not just those who have those balances right now in super above 3 million. It’s into the future as well, unindexed.

DEB KNIGHT:

The Prime Minister has said today that politicians would not be exempt from any of the changes the extra 15% and there’s not many politicians with that old defined benefit scheme who would be really in that camp as it stands. Is that a welcome confirmation from Anthony Albanese today?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, I think the Prime Minister was ducking and weaving on this question over the last couple of days, and we haven’t had really a straight answer.

DEB KNIGHT:

He gave a straight answer today and said, no, they would not be exempt.

ANGIE BELL:

Well, I’m not across what he said today. I’ve been travelling today, so I haven’t heard what he said about that, but I do know that some state former parliamentarians won’t be exempt from it. So I think you know, it comes back to the way Labor has designed this, and that is to dip into the largest pool of funding that Australians have worked their entire life for, and young Australians will work for their entire life for, and Labor has used it as a tax grab.

DEB KNIGHT:

The housing issue is one that was key during the federal election, and the Coalition and the government, to be fair, you both took pretty much demand side solutions to the housing crisis to voters. Finding a place to live, it really is the biggest concern for young people today. Is that what you’re hearing from the round tables or from young voters who you’ve been dealing with? Housing, is that the key concern?

ANGIE BELL:

Absolutely, housing is in the top few concerns of young Australians. Housing security is a problem for so many young Australians right now. But I will say that under Labor, their housing policies have been an absolute disaster, because the Housing Australia Future Fund has not delivered a single new home in the last term. And I will also say, particularly for young Australians, that the great Australian dream of home ownership is dead under this government. They have killed it. Now, in terms of the Coalition…

DEB KNIGHT:

It’s not as though it’s been a problem that’s just been four years in the making. It’s been a problem that has been decades in the making under Coalition Governments too. You’ve got to concede that.

ANGIE BELL:

Well, what you highlighted was the supply side problem. Now, Labor promised 1.2 million new houses, and they have certainly not supplied that many houses to Australians. And so as you rightly pointed out, there is a supply side problem that we can’t house all Australians. And under this government, it’s gotten worse, and the Housing Australia Future Fund, the great solution by the Labor Government, has not improved the situation for young Australians, particularly. Now, as the Shadow Minister for Youth over the last three years, there is one model that piqued my interest, and that was for vulnerable young Australians, and that is the Foyer model. And I note that the Queensland Government, under David Crisafulli has expanded that model up in Queensland. That is a terrific model that’s got many benefits for young people, where they give a percentage of their payment or whatever they’re earning, their earnings, a percentage of that for rent for a period of 18 months to help them get through to permanent housing. I think that’s a terrific model.

DEB KNIGHT:

So will the Coalition be pushing to help younger Australians switch to supply side solutions? Will you be pushing for rezoning, pushing for building more? Will that be key to Coalition policy when it comes to housing?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, I certainly think supply is very, very important, and at the moment, we are going through the processes of reviewing our housing policy.

DEB KNIGHT:

So on the table?

ANGIE BELL:

Everything’s on the table.

DEB KNIGHT:

Yeah, well, if you don’t fix supply, you’re not going to fix housing. That’s the bottom line here. We’ve got to get that supply issue sorted. And look, if people can increase the amount that they earn, that’s also going to help too, to get a foot on the property ladder. We know that wages, we need them to be growing faster than property prices if we want to outrun this issue. How do you read the Fair Work Commission decision today?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, the Coalition, we always respect the independence of the Fair Work Commission, and we do want to see higher real wages. We’ve said that time and again, but I think the lowest paid workers basically have been smashed by Labor’s cost of living crisis. And of course, everybody deserves a pay rise, but certainly especially the lowest paid workers, it’s so very important. But the question has to be asked, Deb, how does business afford to pay their workers more. And I think that’s a really important question, and the answer, of course, is to make more money. And how does that happen? Well, we have to improve productivity. Inflation has to remain low and get lower. We have to have reliable and affordable energy for those businesses, and we have to cut red tape. And what we’ve seen under the Labor government over the last three years is 33,000 businesses that have gone broke under Labor. Now, I had my start in retail. For 20 years, I helped retailers improve their bottom line – that is their margin – and the amount of money that they make, that is what they use to pay employees. And so if those business conditions aren’t right for small and family businesses particularly, across the country, they won’t be employing their staff. They won’t be employing young people, in particular, who work in retail.

DEB KNIGHT:

And just on wage decisions, the shoppies union, the SDA, has been fighting to get workers under the age of 18 to be paid the same, for the same job, as adult workers, which I don’t know about you, does that seem like a legitimate issue to be addressed?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, I think that is probably a matter for the Fair Work Commission into the future, but certainly…

DEB KNIGHT:

But from in your discussions as the Shadow Minister for Youth, would that be something that you would encourage them to rule, for younger people doing the same job as those over the age of 18, should they be paid the same?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, that is a matter for the Fair Work Commission to come to. But what I will say is that businesses, in order to employ young people, have to make some money. And what we’ve seen under the government is insolvency after insolvency. So business conditions are not right for those small businesses, particularly in retail, to hire more employees because sales are higher, because they aren’t. Sales are lower and margins are lower, electricity bills are higher, and so businesses have to be able to afford to pay these wage increases and to pay their bills and to make money themselves in order to be sustainable into the future. So very, very important, Deb.

DEB KNIGHT:

Do young people also, though, deserve to be getting the same pay as for doing the same work? They’ve got to also make their way in the world being able to afford to buy homes, as we’ve been talking about.

ANGIE BELL:

Well, that’ll be something that the SDA, no doubt, will put to the Fair Work Commission. And that decision, of course, is independent, and we respect that.

DEB KNIGHT:

But you don’t back what the SDA is calling for?

ANGIE BELL:

Look at this point in time, I’m not looking at that. It’s not in front of me. And so I would say that we respect what the Fair Work Commission would come up with, should that go in front of them.

DEB KNIGHT:

The other issue that I wanted to ask you about, it’s being addressed by the Financial Review this week in a summit on artificial intelligence, which AI is being held up, we talk about productivity as being really key to boosting productivity, not just in this country, but around the world. Young Australians, they’re the most adapted to the new technology, let’s face it, but with AI regulations, will you back them in order to help the next wave of entrepreneurs come through? Do we need regulation of this new technology, do you think?

ANGIE BELL:

Well, I think that’s a matter for some other Shadow Ministers across the cabinet, the Shadow Cabinet, but I have seen some comments around how we would like to see AI incorporated, because it is a measure that can increase productivity. And so I think that’s important that we embrace AI, but we’ll see what the government comes up with in terms of guardrails around that, and review it at that time.

DEB KNIGHT:

Yeah, the Business Council this week was raising concerns about over regulating AI, the fears that it might limit the amount of use of the technology to get to the problem of productivity that we’re trying to address. I guess that’s a concern that you share.

ANGIE BELL:

Well, absolutely, I don’t think that over regulation is a good thing. Less regulation usually is a better thing for the economy and for productivity, certainly. We have a problem under the Labor government when it comes to productivity in this country, it’s virtually at zero, and it needs to improve moving forward into the next decade. And I think AI can play a very important role in improving productivity across the country.

DEB KNIGHT:

Yeah, we certainly need to get that productivity problem solved. That is the truth of it. Thank you so much for joining us, Angie.

ANGIE BELL:

My pleasure, thanks for having me.

ENDS.