TRANSCRIPT – ABC AFTERNOON BRIEFING

Angie Bell MP
Shadow Minister for Early Childhood Education
Shadow Minister for Youth
Federal Member for Moncrieff

TRANSCRIPT
ABC – AFTERNOON BRIEFING

31 Janaury 2023

Subjects: The Voice, Safeguard Mechanisms, China-Australia Trade Relations

E&OE………………………………………………

GREG JENNET:

We’ve got Labor MP and Member for Macnamara, Josh Burns back with us from Melbourne of course, and the LNP’s Member for Moncrieff, Angie Bell joins us from the Gold Coast.

Welcome to both Angie and Josh. Why don’t we start with The Voice since Indigenous Affairs have really been a dominant theme of the week. Now I’ll go to you Josh. It does seem to be an amount of noise surrounding the proposal, a curiosity as well that people have expressed about wanting more detail. How susceptible is this campaign to some of that noise?

Even if you want an example of course, the Greens hold some influence in your part of the world, and you’ve got Lydia Thorpe, you know, on the brink of threatening to campaign against it. What’s the cut through that’s going to clean this up for the campaign.

JOSH BURNS MP:

Well good afternoon Greg, and it’s good to be with you and good afternoon Angie. This is a really exciting year and I think that our country has a rare opportunity to right a lot of the wrongs of the past and to have a really unifying moment where we can gather with First Nations people and do two really simple things. One is recognition in our national constitution of First Nations people and the sixty-five thousand years of history. The other one is consultation around making sure that we are asking First Nations people what their views are on these issues that matter to them. Beyond that Greg there’s going to be people on the far right and the far left of the political spectrum that are going to want to rant and rave and that’s part of our democracy, but I know that sensible people are going to see through that and are going to be able to see that this is just two simple key issues and key parts of the Uluru Statement – recognition and consultation.

GREG JENNET:

Alright Angie, well Josh sounds reasonably relaxed around a process that might start to filter out some of that noise. Tell us about your starting position as an LNP MP for this year.

ANGIE BELL MP:

Well, I hope that Josh puts me in that sensible basket, I certainly put Josh in that sensible basket. My view on this of course is that Australians just want to see action on closing the gap and Australians just want to see results. In terms of our Indigenous population, it’s been going on for way too long. Indigenous populations across the country don’t have the same opportunities, don’t have the same outcomes and this is why we have asked so many questions around how The Voice will change that. I think that Peter Dutton has been asking the questions rightly and Australians, reasonable Australians like me, want to know exactly how this is going to affect those outcomes. How are we going to close the gap? What’s it going to be made up of and what affects is it going to make? One easy solution to that would be to legislate. The Prime Minister can legislate this now, put it into place, test it out, see how it works and then perhaps, based on the outcomes of those laws then we could take it to a referendum. I think that would be the reasonable way forward – to test it and see. Most Australians have those questions.

GREG JENNET:

Right now, that’s fair enough to ask them I suppose but what if you didn’t get some of the answers to satisfy your practical reconciliation test that you’ve just outlined there, Angie. Could you still vote for something which was purely symbolic – not symbolic but consultative, you know didn’t pass the practical reconciliation test or the closing the gap test but was a mechanism for people to be heard none the less.

ANGIE BELL MP:

Well, my response hasn’t changed here because these questions need to be answered for Australians to reasonably go to the polls, at the cost of a referendum to the country, to the nation and I think that it’s reasonable to ask the Prime Minister and his Ministers for answers that fall in line with one another as well. There seems to be convoluted answers, tricky answers, from the Prime Minister. He is confused about what The Voice would look like he can’t answer questions that rightly the Australian population want to hear the answers to.

GREG JENNET:

Alright Josh, on that proposition which the Coalition have put forward – legislate first and then as a backup to enshrine, go forth with your referendum if you wish. What would be wrong with that?

JOSH BURNS MP:

Greg, I’m not going to get involved in the partisan games of Peter Dutton because frankly this is not about Peter Dutton. Let’s go back to what we are actually talking about here. In 2017, in the Uluru Statement from the Heart, people of First Nations communities from right around the country, gathered and put forward a statement and in that statement, they asked for three things: voice, treaty and truth. What we committed to as part of our commitment, the Labor Party, was to answer the Uluru Statement from the Heart and to work with First Nations communities and to be united and to give our country this chance for unity. First Nations communities have been waiting for decades and the sort of political games that have been put forward are not going to get us progress. What we have done is answer the Uluru Statement from the Heart, we’ve committed to it and we’re going to try to do our bit for First Nations communities to be able to have the three things that they’ve asked for. Not what Peter Dutton’s asking for but what First Nations communities are asking for and that’s what I’m focused on.

GREG JENNET:

Yes, well it’s an argument or debate that will have to be run and won and one way or another it will through this year.

When we go to another intractable in Australian politics and that’s the safeguard mechanism. Angie, your side of politics – none other than Greg Hunt actually invented this mechanism and now Labor’s going to dial it up and use it to achieve its climate change goals so why not support it?

ANGIE BELL MP:

That’s right, well we are currently looking at the detail around it but from what we can see there will be a decrease in emissions of 4.9% required from about 215 large businesses across the nation, mainly can I point out in regional areas, and this is over the next 7 years. If those businesses don’t reach those targets, it means they will face fines of up to $275 a tonne. So of course, that will cost businesses bottom line which ultimately would have ramifications through the entire economy, through jobs and I don’t think that’s necessarily a good thing.

GREG JENNET:

But is there a cost-free way? Really, we’ve been having this debate for a long time. Is there a cost-free way to achieve your objectives on the reductions?

ANGIE BELL MP:

These measures are the most heavy handed when it comes to government across the world. They’re even higher than the targets the EU has set. So, let’s be clear – this is government overreaching into industry and setting targets that may have ramifications across our economy and for jobs and for families.

GREG JENNET:

Well, if people hold, Josh Burns, the positions that they’re adopting now throughout the debate that’s going ensue through the Parliament – you’re in a spot of bother, aren’t you? Might it be necessary to negotiate on some finer details including the price of carbon that’s embedded within this policy because the Greens, as much as the Coalition are sabre-rattling at the moment.

JOSH BURNS MP:

Well, there’s a lot of water to go under the bridge and if the Greens want to block climate action, then that’s a matter for them but I do think that if our policy is making Matt Canavan’s head explode then we are probably doing something that’s going to help climate action and… Interrupted

ANGIE BELL MP:

I’m not Matt Canavan, Josh

JOSH BURNS MP:

Well, at the moment you’ve got the same policy as him Angie and you know I think the country is sick of it. There are a lot of Liberal Members of Parliament who are no longer in the parliament because of this outdated hand break that these people put on climate action. Our country…Interrupted

ANGIE BELL MP:

This is a heavy-handed carbon tax Josh.

JOSH BURNS MP:

We took forward, I didn’t get that Angie. We took forward a plan to the election which included the safeguard mechanism which is the biggest government lever to reduce our emissions that any government in Australia’s history has ever tried to implement. It is a big instrument and a big lever that will reduce our emission footprint and it’s important that we do that because we want to be a part of the international efforts to tackle climate change. There’s no surprise that you know the position might go down in the Queensland LNP branches, but the Australian public have moved on so that’s what we are going to try and implement.

GREG JENNET:

Alright. Okay Angie, I want you to round this out for us. Repeat the statement you made in cross talk there and also to the point around the mandate. Labor made no bones of the fact throughout its campaign that it would do exactly what it is doing now.

ANGIE BELL MP:

My point was that this is a heavy-handed carbon tax ultimately because these are targets that have been significantly ramped up. Everybody wants to do the right thing by the climate, everybody wants targets that are reasonable, and everybody wants to make a difference – there’s no doubt about that. Josh and I can both agree on that as reasonable people. The point is, this is a heavy-handed carbon tax that’s three times what Julia Gillard was proposing to put in place, and we saw how that went. This is a way of raising revenue for the Labor party. Labor is back and taxation is on the rise and there’s no doubt about that.

GREG JENNET:

Alright, let’s move onto a couple of quick ones before time beats us and I’ll cast this one over to you first of all Angie. The Teals came into the parliament promising a new way of doing business and to remove some of the toxicity. Now we learn that it has been confirmed by the Finance Department, there is a case on foot against Monique Ryan MP by her former Chief of Staff, Sally Rugg. I guess we have to be cautions about commentary here, facts are still to emerge within the court but Angie Bell, any observations – it’s as simple as that really.

ANGIE BELL MP:

Yes, I would agree with what you just said Greg, that we do need to observe legal processes are underway, but I will say that everybody deserves to work in a safe workplace and that’s why the Coalition did so much work with the Jenkin’s Review to make sure that Parliament House is the gold standard – as it should be across the nation for workplace safety. I don’t think it’s appropriate to comment on the legal ramifications of this. Obviously, it’s a matter for Ms Ryan’s lawyers.

GREG JENNET:

Yes, it is, but look one way or another, Josh Burns, the Finance Department that is the Commonwealth will probably become a party to this and thus embroiled in it. Any surprise? Any commentary that you – did you raise an eyebrow when you first heard of this?

JOSH BURNS MP:

Greg it’s a matter before the courts and I think it would not only be improper for me to be commenting but I think it would be actually pretty unfair to both Ms Rugg and Dr Ryan so I just can’t make any further comments on this one while it’s before the courts.

GREG JENNET:

Noted and that is fair enough. Quickly on trade, we started our program today with what the ABC has learnt is a pretty sure bet now and that is that Don Farrell as Trade Minister will have a video link up next week with his Chinese counterpart. Josh, do you sense that dependent on those talks a full thaw is well underway now?

JOSH BURNS MP:

Look we said about trying to stabilise the relationship with China. It is our largest trading partner and when you’ve got a country that buys so much stuff off Australian businesses it’s important that a government acts responsibly and that the adults try and manage our international relationships and the interests of Australians. In saying that though, where there are matters where we need to stand up for our own national interest or for our values, we have been absolutely, you know, we’ve come to the table and done exactly so. I think that you can have this balance, you can stand up for what is right, and you can also stand up for Australia’s interests and that’s what we will continue to do.

GREG JENNET:

And Angie, your attitude? I mean this is a natural follow on isn’t it from the Prime Minister’s meeting with the President and Penny Wong’s with her counterpart, but this could, couldn’t it Angie, be the clincher that actually removes those final impediments to trade?

ANGIE BELL MP:

Well of course the Coalition welcomes ongoing talks with China. That was difficult during COVID for many reasons we did point out that China didn’t want to meet with Australia at that point but also that Ministers couldn’t actually travel and I think it’s easy to forget that. Ministers were unable travel out of the country apart from a couple of major meetings across the world where we sent the Foreign Minster…Interrupted

GREG JENNET:

Sure, they wouldn’t pick up the phone though either would they? There were other blockages apart from…Interrupted

ANGIE BELL MP:

That’s right, there were other blockages, so we welcome of course Australia engaging in those talks but let’s see. The proof will be in the pudding, and we will see what Penny Wong’s able to achieve and of course that will be in terms of lifting trade sanctions, in terms of more transparency around human rights and in terms of stability in the Indo-Pacific. I think they are really important areas and the proof’s in the pudding in terms of what the results are, but we wish of course the Labor government well when it comes to our relationship with China. They are important as a trade partner in very many areas and so we hope that goes well.

GREG JENNET:

Yes, well all those matters have been on the table we’re told in the previous interactions between the Prime Minister and Penny Wong so presuming they might be too with Don Farrell.

Ok we’re going to wrap it up there today and resume, if not as this panel, then with you in new combinations throughout the year. Angie Bell, Josh Burns, great to start out with you today though.

ANGIE BELL MP:

Thanks so much.

JOSH BURNS MP:

Thanks Greg. Thanks Angie.

[ends]