TRANSCRIPT – ABC AFTERNOON BRIEFING

Angie Bell MP
Shadow Minister for Early Childhood Education
Shadow Minister for Youth
Federal Member for Moncrieff

TRANSCRIPT
ABC AFTERNOON BRIEFING

27 February 2024

Subjects: Gender pay gap, supermarket prices, Mardi Gras and NSW Police

E&OE…………………………

GREG JENNETT:
We might get an assessment of what sort of behavioural change that data could generate. We’ll do that with our political panel joining us right here, right now, Labor frontbencher Kristy McBain. Welcome back Kristy. And LNP frontbencher, Angie Bell, same to you Angie.

Let’s start with gender pay, since this was a government initiative, Kristy, the publication of this data, will direct it to you. Why will it shift the dial, the mere publication of these companies, which Katy Gallagher says is not naming and shaming, how and why will it shift the dial on that gap?

KRISTY MCBAIN MP:
Well, we took a commitment to the last election that we wanted to have more transparency over gender pay gap data. We implemented that through legislation last year and this is the first report. I think what it will do is actually drive some cultural change in some of those companies in some of those industries. But it’s really important that we continue to back women in every industry across the country, which is why we’ve so wholeheartedly supported wage increases for aged care workers, we’ve back the minimum wage case, because we know that women traditionally have a lower rate of pay or are working part time or casual hours, we need to address some of those issues and get more women into the workforce.

GREG JENNETT:
Are you satisfied with the accuracy of the snapshot that were given in this data Angie Bell? I noticed there’s been some criticism at the margins from some of your colleagues that it doesn’t, as Kristy’s just said, adequately take account of choices in the workplace that women might actively choose for a whole variety of reasons to be more into part time work than full time work. Is that a criticism you would make?

ANGIE BELL MP:
Well, firstly, I’ll say that it’s great that there is a light being shone on this growing cohort of women who suffer from financial insecurity (sic), and that is the inequity and inequality of financial insecurity, which is a great cause for concern across the nation.

I will also say that it was Marise Payne, the Minister for Women, who actually commissioned this report, that then gave the recommendations, that the Coalition Government accepted. We are on the same page when it comes to this issue and it is very, very important. I just want to put that on the table, firstly to say that it was the Coalition that did that.

GREG JENNETT:
So if a company and we don’t need to name all of them, but some of the bigger gaps were around Jetstar, Commbank, Qantas, Westpac, big brand names in this country. If they’ve got large gaps, why will they now address that through recruitment or promotion? Is it through the naming and shaming or is there a business reason for them to go out and address?

ANGIE BELL MP:
Well, there is a spotlight on this issue now and so it’s up to those companies what they will do with that information, but certainly it is time that the country had this conversation, that it was looked at. Both sides of politics are on the same page on this one, actually.

GREG JENNETT:
All right, well, we’ll watch this space and see if it closes with some of the measures that you’ve pointed out Kristy are already underway.

Supermarkets, the second side of you know what many would regard as an oligopoly market is Coles with $599 million. After Woolworths were the best part of 900 before write-downs last week. Does this scream excessive market power to you when you look at both of them together? They’re big numbers.

KRISTY MCBAIN MP:
There are a whole bunch of farmers in my electorate who are not getting paid any additional money at the farm gate for the produce that is available in our supermarkets at a time where we see farmers not getting paid as much. But our supermarkets charging consumers more. You know, you’d hoped that there was a correlation between what our farmers are getting we’re not seeing that. It’s one of the reasons that last year we had Craig Emerson look into the food grocery Code of Conduct dispute resolution process. Now we’re having him look into the code itself and whether it needs to be stronger. Why we’ve had the ACCC commissioned to do this report, because it’s really important that we have a comparison over time to see what’s happening with supermarket prices. And it’s also important, with engaged choice to actually report back every three months about what the average price of groceries are. So there is a watchful eye on supermarkets. Across the country because we want consumers to be paying less for the groceries, especially farmers are not earning any more for the produce they’re putting into the supermarket.

GREG JENNETT:
And what level of confidence or expectation do you place in those processes? There’s a few of them there Angie, it’s a long list. I’ll quote a Labor colleague from state level to you in a moment Kristy, with a view on what governments exactly can do in this area. But do you hold your breath waiting for lower prices through those processes?

ANGIE BELL MP:
Australians are in a cost-of-living crisis under this 18-month-old government. Groceries are up by nine per cent. Electricity is up by 20 per cent. Australians want to know what the government is doing to help them. Now Anthony Albanese said that he would give the ACCC extra powers and now he’s wound back on, he has back pedalled on that- he’s flip flopped on that, as we’ve seen him do it on many issues. There’s no doubt the supermarkets need to be held accountable for their pricing to make sure that there is no price gouging going on, but I don’t hold much faith in the government. It’s a bit of a ‘nothing to see here’, it’s all the supermarket’s fault the prices have gone up.

GREG JENNETT:
Peter Malinauskas, the Premier of South Australia is who I was alluding to a moment ago Kristy. He told a forum in Whyalla at the weekend that politicians frequently vowed to try to reduce living costs but nine out of 10 times it’s all to use his word bullshit. I mean, that’s a fairly frank assessment of what levers you’ve got at your disposal here, isn’t it?

KRISTY MCBAIN MP:
Absolutely. That’s why we’re looking at the powers that we hold to make sure that these supermarkets are held accountable. It’s why we have the ACCC in the first place to make sure that there is competition in any sector across the country. The last time in ACCCC inquire was done into supermarket prices was when Labor was last in power. So you know the Liberals and Nationals have talked about this being a big issue but in their 10 years in government didn’t address a single issue that had to do with competition or consumer pricing when it comes to supermarkets. For so many of us that live across regional Australia. There is very little choice for us in our supermarket shopping so we need to make sure that the ACCC has the right powers that the grocery food code of conduct is actually has some teeth and that our farmers are getting paid the right prices for the produce that is going into the supermarkets. So absolutely. There’s more to do here. But you can’t sit on your hands and just, you know, point over there and say, you know, someone else’s problem, like the Opposition did for the last 10 years that they’re in government.

GREG JENNETT:
I quoted a state Premier Angie, in many ways it does fall to them around planning and making real estate available. More often than not, it falls to them.

ANGIE BELL MP:
This is about inflation, Greg, this is about Australians paying more for their groceries under the Albanese government. Nine per cent at the checkout, 20 per cent for electricity, gas is up, mortgages are up. The facts are that under the Coalition government inflation was not as high as it is now. And under Labor, it is, and Australians are paying the price.

GREG JENNETT:
Can I take you both to something that sort of intersects I suppose with the sad news from New South Wales, it concerns that Mardi Gras in Sydney this weekend. Ao New South Wales Police have been kind of uninvited from participating. And while we’ve been on air news has reached us from the AFP, the federal police. They won’t march in Mardi Gras either. They’ve taken the decision and say that it wasn’t taken lightly. That news has just reached us, Kristy McBain as a New South Welsh woman, you’d be keeping an eye on this. Do you understand the position, bit of a bind for the police forces both, isn’t it?

KRISTY MCBAIN MP:
I think absolutely. I mean, the Mardi Gras organisers have made this decision following the very tragic circumstances of two young men being killed. And I think that that decision wouldn’t have been taken lightly. I think that there has been numerous steps taken since 1978 for the New South Wales police force to rectify their treatment of the gay and lesbian community. And there are members in the police force who are of that community as well. And so I’m sure for that for some of those members. They’d be upset by this decision. But I’m sure understanding of the position taken by the Mardi Gras or organisers.

GREG JENNETT:
Yeah, there are historical reasons. You know, it’s been the subject of a lengthy inquiry quite separate to the tragedy of the last week. Angie Bell, but what’s your view on whether police should be you know, flying the flag in a participatory way at Mardi Gras rather than just patrolling the streets?

ANGIE BELL MP:
This is a great tragedy of two beautiful young men in the prime of their lives taken through domestic violence by this alleged perpetrator and I think it’s a great tragedy for the queer community. It’s a great tragedy for the police as well who are working so hard on this now, since it happened to make sure that justice is found.

Now I think that Mardi Gras has a unique opportunity at the moment to lead with this in terms of inclusion. I’m sure they haven’t taken this decision lightly. But I think they are a beacon of inclusivity, and they should probably have another look at what they’ve decided. Because I think that to punish a whole cohort of police who have marched with them in solidarity for 20 years, for one person’s alleged actions, is probably not the best way forward.

GREG JENNETT:
Okay so you would urge, and I think there are some colleagues of yours in the Parliament, a rethink would you propose to communicate that more directly than you do in here?

ANGIE BELL MP:
You know, they haven’t reached out to me to ask my view on it. You’re the first person has asked me my view on it. But I think that the New South Wales Police have marched with Mardi Gras for 20 years. I think it’s an opportunity for police to show their support of the community and of the community to show their support of the police.

GREG JENNETT:
Do you acknowledge that would carry risk though, if either an AFP float or a New South Wales Police float was to participate? You might then be looking at a situation of a breakdown and cohesion and celebration on what’s supposed to be, you know, happy occasion more than anything else.

ANGIE BELL MP:
I think it’s up to Mardi Gras to make that happen. In terms of inclusivity leading the way. I know that it’s very painful for everyone in the community for the victims’ families, but perhaps they should look through another lens.

GREG JENNETT:
And Kristy, do you see any risk of it if it did go the other way, if for some reason, they were persuaded to come back and I think that New South Wales Premier has had a few things to say about that. The risk of that then it becomes a flashpoint on the night.

KRISTY MCBAIN MP:
It’s absolutely something we don’t want to see on a night of which is meant to be a celebration of how far we’ve come as a nation and how far the LGBTQI community has come as well. And we wouldn’t want to see any breakdown in that cohesion. And I think for that reason is probably the reason that decisions been made.

GREG JENNETT:
Now it’s a delicate balance.

KRISTY MCBAIN MP:
Absolutely.

GREG JENNETT:
Sure. And I thank you both for frankly, confronting it on what, yeah, it’s difficult day for many who’ve been following this story. Thank goodness we did get you both to air with this. Just to let our audience in on the fact that the bells were ringing and we feared for a moment we’d lose both of you, didn’t happen, really relieved about that.

Kristy McBain Angie Bell. Thanks for joining us once again.

[ends]